Comments on: Creasters http://www.worldontheweb.com/2007/12/24/creasters/ A daily webzine and forum for discussion of news that arises at the intersection of religion and culture Mon, 28 Apr 2008 21:02:10 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.3.1 By: Random Name http://www.worldontheweb.com/2007/12/24/creasters/#comment-255687 Random Name Fri, 28 Dec 2007 13:28:09 +0000 http://www.worldontheweb.com/2007/12/24/creasters/#comment-255687 #12 Abramoff is quite likely a pertinent example as is the GOP flirtation with proLife Christians. #12

Abramoff is quite likely a pertinent example as is the GOP flirtation with proLife Christians.

]]> By: Psalm Singer http://www.worldontheweb.com/2007/12/24/creasters/#comment-255685 Psalm Singer Fri, 28 Dec 2007 12:54:55 +0000 http://www.worldontheweb.com/2007/12/24/creasters/#comment-255685 11,12, and on manipulation, Fool Proofing Your Life by Jan Silvious, a study of Psalms and Proverbs. Learn how not to be the companion of a fool or the friend of an angry person. Learn how to listen to what you hear. 11,12, and on manipulation, Fool Proofing Your Life by Jan Silvious, a study of Psalms and Proverbs. Learn how not to be the companion of a fool or the friend of an angry person. Learn how to listen to what you hear.

]]> By: Sawgunner http://www.worldontheweb.com/2007/12/24/creasters/#comment-255342 Sawgunner Thu, 27 Dec 2007 05:30:21 +0000 http://www.worldontheweb.com/2007/12/24/creasters/#comment-255342 #11 Random Name, I think a perfect example of the non-believing manipulator type you spoke of was Jack Abramoff. I'm nearly certain he was devout and religious but not a Christian. Yet he was willing to use conservative biblical Christians to help advance his lobbyist efforts. Indeed, it was Pat Robertson wonderboy Ralph Reed PhD who was the prime manipulatee of Abramoff. And I would also add that the GOP recognizes how invaluable conservative proLife Christians are to their "get out the vote" campaigns. But if the GOP ever got serious and actually got abortion policy remanded back to the states and elected legislators, then all those proLife GOP voters would say "Mission Accomplished!" and promptly withdraw from electoral politics. That would greatly decrease voter turnout. No real incentive to "solve" the abortion issue. So you could say proLifers are also manipulated by politicians who may or may not themselves be pro-anything other than gaining power and retaining it. #11 Random Name,
I think a perfect example of the non-believing manipulator type you spoke of was Jack Abramoff. I’m nearly certain he was devout and religious but not a Christian. Yet he was willing to use conservative biblical Christians to help advance his lobbyist efforts.
Indeed, it was Pat Robertson wonderboy Ralph Reed PhD who was the prime manipulatee of Abramoff.
And I would also add that the GOP recognizes how invaluable conservative proLife Christians are to their “get out the vote” campaigns. But if the GOP ever got serious and actually got abortion policy remanded back to the states and elected legislators, then all those proLife GOP voters would say “Mission Accomplished!” and promptly withdraw from electoral politics.
That would greatly decrease voter turnout. No real incentive to “solve” the abortion issue.
So you could say proLifers are also manipulated by politicians who may or may not themselves be pro-anything other than gaining power and retaining it.

]]> By: Random Name http://www.worldontheweb.com/2007/12/24/creasters/#comment-255239 Random Name Wed, 26 Dec 2007 21:25:03 +0000 http://www.worldontheweb.com/2007/12/24/creasters/#comment-255239 Night Train, I have a theory, which seems to make Joel Mark livid, that some people--Karl Rove--comes to mind--think it is very useful for other people to believe in Christianity, and are very cynical about manipulating such people by their belief in Christianity. I don't really know if this is true or not. I asked Joel (because I've read comments at wmb that Joel has some connections or ties to the White House and so I wondered if he knows Karl personally). Joel's response was to be offended that I asked, which I didn't find very informative. So I will ask you, though you may or may not want to answer. As a person who once believed, but no longer does, but still "finds much in it worthy of admiration," do you think there may be people with a similar experience who turn to manipulating Christians instead of criticizing or arguing with them? Night Train, I have a theory, which seems to make Joel Mark livid, that some people–Karl Rove–comes to mind–think it is very useful for other people to believe in Christianity, and are very cynical about manipulating such people by their belief in Christianity.

I don’t really know if this is true or not. I asked Joel (because I’ve read comments at wmb that Joel has some connections or ties to the White House and so I wondered if he knows Karl personally). Joel’s response was to be offended that I asked, which I didn’t find very informative.

So I will ask you, though you may or may not want to answer. As a person who once believed, but no longer does, but still “finds much in it worthy of admiration,” do you think there may be people with a similar experience who turn to manipulating Christians instead of criticizing or arguing with them?

]]> By: Night Train http://www.worldontheweb.com/2007/12/24/creasters/#comment-255074 Night Train Wed, 26 Dec 2007 02:33:51 +0000 http://www.worldontheweb.com/2007/12/24/creasters/#comment-255074 Sawgunner, I don't "hate" Christianity by any stretch of the imagination. I find much in it worthy of admiration. I just don't think it's true. Sawgunner, I don’t “hate” Christianity by any stretch of the imagination. I find much in it worthy of admiration. I just don’t think it’s true.

]]> By: Victoria http://www.worldontheweb.com/2007/12/24/creasters/#comment-255041 Victoria Tue, 25 Dec 2007 20:58:16 +0000 http://www.worldontheweb.com/2007/12/24/creasters/#comment-255041 KI - 2 I knew someone just like your MIL when I was in High School. She was a wonderful woman, kind and loving, she went to our church.....but she was shy, she never married....we all liked her - She was a school teacher, I believe she taught 1st grade - God bless you, Merry CHRISTMAS - KI - 2

I knew someone just like your MIL when I was in High School. She was a wonderful woman, kind and loving, she went to our church…..but she was shy, she never married….we all liked her - She was a school teacher, I believe she taught 1st grade -

God bless you, Merry CHRISTMAS -

]]> By: Sawgunner http://www.worldontheweb.com/2007/12/24/creasters/#comment-255039 Sawgunner Tue, 25 Dec 2007 20:28:36 +0000 http://www.worldontheweb.com/2007/12/24/creasters/#comment-255039 Night Train, I too wish to hear your "why I hate Christianity root stem branch and blossom" story. A man I know was barely eking out a living as a state employee (Dept of highways they called it in the 50s). His oldest son suffered what we today would term a catastrophic illness and could have died. The man and his wife were racked by grief and fear. A well meaning "church lady"--actually the man's half-sister--offered the following to the distraught parents: THIS HAS HAPPENED BECAUSE YOU TWO HAVE NOT BEEN LIVING RIGHT That man grew to be a silent pew-sitter and his pew sitting became less and less frequent as the 50s gave way to the secularized 60s. That man was by the way my late father. Night Train, I too wish to hear your “why I hate Christianity root stem branch and blossom” story.
A man I know was barely eking out a living as a state employee (Dept of highways they called it in the 50s). His oldest son suffered what we today would term a catastrophic illness and could have died. The man and his wife were racked by grief and fear. A well meaning “church lady”–actually the man’s half-sister–offered the following to the distraught parents:
THIS HAS HAPPENED BECAUSE YOU TWO HAVE NOT BEEN LIVING RIGHT
That man grew to be a silent pew-sitter and his pew sitting became less and less frequent as the 50s gave way to the secularized 60s.
That man was by the way my late father.

]]> By: Sawgunner http://www.worldontheweb.com/2007/12/24/creasters/#comment-255037 Sawgunner Tue, 25 Dec 2007 20:24:08 +0000 http://www.worldontheweb.com/2007/12/24/creasters/#comment-255037 I dont know for sure and have no data source, but I suspect the high percentage of functional illiterates in the US are (perhaps understandably) turned off by church. To the extent that we have more infotainment and Willow Creek-styled "worship" perhaps these folks will have reentry into church. As for as the Creasters, CEOs.. if y'all know that you'll have a huge influx of them on those days it might be good to hit'em with the main essential points of the Gospel and extend that altar call. They might not ever pass that way again (with apologies to CSN&Y?) I dont know for sure and have no data source, but I suspect the high percentage of functional illiterates in the US are (perhaps understandably) turned off by church. To the extent that we have more infotainment and Willow Creek-styled “worship” perhaps these folks will have reentry into church.
As for as the Creasters, CEOs.. if y’all know that you’ll have a huge influx of them on those days it might be good to hit’em with the main essential points of the Gospel and extend that altar call. They might not ever pass that way again (with apologies to CSN&Y?)

]]> By: Marie http://www.worldontheweb.com/2007/12/24/creasters/#comment-255024 Marie Tue, 25 Dec 2007 17:48:24 +0000 http://www.worldontheweb.com/2007/12/24/creasters/#comment-255024 We have all day, here! We have all day, here!

]]> By: Night Train http://www.worldontheweb.com/2007/12/24/creasters/#comment-254989 Night Train Tue, 25 Dec 2007 08:13:55 +0000 http://www.worldontheweb.com/2007/12/24/creasters/#comment-254989 Long story, Marie. Long story, Marie.

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