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	<title>Comments on: Enough said, now?</title>
	<link>http://www.worldontheweb.com/2008/04/03/enough-said-now/</link>
	<description>A daily webzine and forum for discussion of news that arises at the intersection of religion and culture</description>
	<pubDate>Sat, 31 May 2008 00:58:57 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Spinoza</title>
		<link>http://www.worldontheweb.com/2008/04/03/enough-said-now/#comment-290139</link>
		<dc:creator>Spinoza</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Apr 2008 20:27:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.worldontheweb.com/2008/04/03/enough-said-now/#comment-290139</guid>
		<description>#64 AWSTAR, you haven't "replicated" the Bible "without errors," you've added to it something it does not say - namely that there is something called "information" in the genetic code that can not be added to by God's natural laws. Then you justify this non sequitur with your own subjective sense of "divine guidance" and imagine that James 1:5-8 supports such a delusion.

Thus are cults and various sectarian versions of Christianity born, with each firmly convinced they have the sole version of Truth.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#64 AWSTAR, you haven&#8217;t &#8220;replicated&#8221; the Bible &#8220;without errors,&#8221; you&#8217;ve added to it something it does not say - namely that there is something called &#8220;information&#8221; in the genetic code that can not be added to by God&#8217;s natural laws. Then you justify this non sequitur with your own subjective sense of &#8220;divine guidance&#8221; and imagine that James 1:5-8 supports such a delusion.</p>
<p>Thus are cults and various sectarian versions of Christianity born, with each firmly convinced they have the sole version of Truth.</p>
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		<title>By: awstar</title>
		<link>http://www.worldontheweb.com/2008/04/03/enough-said-now/#comment-290041</link>
		<dc:creator>awstar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Apr 2008 06:56:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.worldontheweb.com/2008/04/03/enough-said-now/#comment-290041</guid>
		<description>Sponoza said:
		&lt;blockquote&gt;
		Well he doesn’t say that in the Bible - you made that up. The original authors of the Bible weren’t writing about DNA; they didn’t even know it existed.
		You have added your own interpretations, suggesting a lack of respect for the original text.
		&lt;/blockquote&gt;
	
	I didn't make it up anymore than what you made up when you read through the Bible 4-5 times.  We both received God's word just as a cell starts with a single strand of DNA.  It's up to us to complete the replication to make it a double strand without errors.  If we add to or subtract from, we have a problem.  You seem to have the equivalent of spiritual Downs syndrome.  You've added too much to what God said.  When I read Genesis 1:11 where God said:
	"Let the land produce vegetation: seed-bearing plants and trees on the land that bear fruit with seed in it, according to their various kinds." And it was so.  I say amen!    You say: "that's a lie"
	If you would like to be healed from your spiritual sickness, try rereading the following verse and trusting in it being written by God just to you.
	
	&lt;blockquote&gt;
		James 1:5-8
			If any of you lacks wisdom, he should ask God, who gives generously to all without finding fault, and it will be given to him.  But when he asks, he must believe and not doubt, because he who doubts is like a wave of the sea, blown and tossed by the wind.  That man should not think he will receive anything from the Lord;  he is a double-minded man, unstable in all he does.
	&lt;/blockquote&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sponoza said:</p>
<blockquote><p>
		Well he doesn’t say that in the Bible - you made that up. The original authors of the Bible weren’t writing about DNA; they didn’t even know it existed.<br />
		You have added your own interpretations, suggesting a lack of respect for the original text.
		</p></blockquote>
<p>	I didn&#8217;t make it up anymore than what you made up when you read through the Bible 4-5 times.  We both received God&#8217;s word just as a cell starts with a single strand of DNA.  It&#8217;s up to us to complete the replication to make it a double strand without errors.  If we add to or subtract from, we have a problem.  You seem to have the equivalent of spiritual Downs syndrome.  You&#8217;ve added too much to what God said.  When I read Genesis 1:11 where God said:<br />
	&#8220;Let the land produce vegetation: seed-bearing plants and trees on the land that bear fruit with seed in it, according to their various kinds.&#8221; And it was so.  I say amen!    You say: &#8220;that&#8217;s a lie&#8221;<br />
	If you would like to be healed from your spiritual sickness, try rereading the following verse and trusting in it being written by God just to you.</p>
<blockquote><p>
		James 1:5-8<br />
			If any of you lacks wisdom, he should ask God, who gives generously to all without finding fault, and it will be given to him.  But when he asks, he must believe and not doubt, because he who doubts is like a wave of the sea, blown and tossed by the wind.  That man should not think he will receive anything from the Lord;  he is a double-minded man, unstable in all he does.
	</p></blockquote>
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		<title>By: Spinoza</title>
		<link>http://www.worldontheweb.com/2008/04/03/enough-said-now/#comment-289937</link>
		<dc:creator>Spinoza</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Apr 2008 21:00:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.worldontheweb.com/2008/04/03/enough-said-now/#comment-289937</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;GOD says He wrote that code and He SUSTAINS that code.&lt;/i&gt;

Well he doesn't say that in the Bible - you made that up. The original authors of the Bible weren't writing about DNA; they didn't even know it existed. 

You have added your own interpretations, suggesting a lack of respect for the original text.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>GOD says He wrote that code and He SUSTAINS that code.</i></p>
<p>Well he doesn&#8217;t say that in the Bible - you made that up. The original authors of the Bible weren&#8217;t writing about DNA; they didn&#8217;t even know it existed. </p>
<p>You have added your own interpretations, suggesting a lack of respect for the original text.</p>
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		<title>By: awstar</title>
		<link>http://www.worldontheweb.com/2008/04/03/enough-said-now/#comment-289899</link>
		<dc:creator>awstar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Apr 2008 19:30:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.worldontheweb.com/2008/04/03/enough-said-now/#comment-289899</guid>
		<description>Spinoza said:  &lt;blockquote&gt; Those verses say nothing about information theory, genetics, DNA, or gene duplication. If you interpret them that way, you are making things up! &lt;/blockquote&gt;

Seeds are how GENETIC INFORMATION is DUPLICATED from the parent to the progeny.  The GENETIC INFORMATION is ENCODED in DNA.  The DNA CODE is comprised of four LETTERS.  When DECODED and expressed, it forms a DUPLICATE of what was originally created.  GOD says He wrote that code and He SUSTAINS that code.  In other words, the DNA code which God wrote  into the very first kind is God's Word.  


The rest of the Bible talks about how God hates it when His creation mutates His Word.  It also spells out a solution He has provided for those creatures who are seeking forgiveness so that they can avoid His wrath by trusting in His Word, rather than man's word.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Spinoza said:<br />
<blockquote> Those verses say nothing about information theory, genetics, DNA, or gene duplication. If you interpret them that way, you are making things up! </p></blockquote>
<p>Seeds are how GENETIC INFORMATION is DUPLICATED from the parent to the progeny.  The GENETIC INFORMATION is ENCODED in DNA.  The DNA CODE is comprised of four LETTERS.  When DECODED and expressed, it forms a DUPLICATE of what was originally created.  GOD says He wrote that code and He SUSTAINS that code.  In other words, the DNA code which God wrote  into the very first kind is God&#8217;s Word.  </p>
<p>The rest of the Bible talks about how God hates it when His creation mutates His Word.  It also spells out a solution He has provided for those creatures who are seeking forgiveness so that they can avoid His wrath by trusting in His Word, rather than man&#8217;s word.</p>
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		<title>By: Spinoza</title>
		<link>http://www.worldontheweb.com/2008/04/03/enough-said-now/#comment-289857</link>
		<dc:creator>Spinoza</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Apr 2008 18:27:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.worldontheweb.com/2008/04/03/enough-said-now/#comment-289857</guid>
		<description>#58 "Why would an organism produce the first 9 before the 10th mutation occured?"

Good question for evolutionary biologists to answer - not a proof of a designer by any means. See #55</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#58 &#8220;Why would an organism produce the first 9 before the 10th mutation occured?&#8221;</p>
<p>Good question for evolutionary biologists to answer - not a proof of a designer by any means. See #55</p>
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		<title>By: Spinoza</title>
		<link>http://www.worldontheweb.com/2008/04/03/enough-said-now/#comment-289854</link>
		<dc:creator>Spinoza</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Apr 2008 18:24:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.worldontheweb.com/2008/04/03/enough-said-now/#comment-289854</guid>
		<description>#58 Those verses say nothing about information theory, genetics, DNA, or gene duplication. If you interpret them that way, you are making things up!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#58 Those verses say nothing about information theory, genetics, DNA, or gene duplication. If you interpret them that way, you are making things up!</p>
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		<title>By: StuBob</title>
		<link>http://www.worldontheweb.com/2008/04/03/enough-said-now/#comment-289853</link>
		<dc:creator>StuBob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Apr 2008 18:22:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.worldontheweb.com/2008/04/03/enough-said-now/#comment-289853</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;It indeed is demonstrable that reduced parts of the flagellum are functional. &lt;/i&gt;

Interesting link.  By my count, however, the Type-III Secretory Apparatus still has some 10 individual proteins.  Why would an organism produce the first 9 before the 10th mutation occured?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>It indeed is demonstrable that reduced parts of the flagellum are functional. </i></p>
<p>Interesting link.  By my count, however, the Type-III Secretory Apparatus still has some 10 individual proteins.  Why would an organism produce the first 9 before the 10th mutation occured?</p>
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		<title>By: awstar</title>
		<link>http://www.worldontheweb.com/2008/04/03/enough-said-now/#comment-289843</link>
		<dc:creator>awstar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Apr 2008 18:08:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.worldontheweb.com/2008/04/03/enough-said-now/#comment-289843</guid>
		<description>Spinoza said:&lt;blockquote&gt;That’s funny - I’ve read the Bible cover-to-cover about 4-5 times, and I don’t remember any discussion of genetics, DNA, information theory, or gene duplication. Could you please point me to the salient verses?&lt;/blockquote&gt;


You must of have missed these verses then:

&lt;blockquote&gt;
Genesis 1:11-12
	11 Then God said, "Let the land produce vegetation: seed-bearing plants and trees on the land that bear fruit with seed in it, according to their various kinds." And it was so.
	12 The land produced vegetation: plants bearing seed according to their kinds and trees bearing fruit with seed in it according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good.
&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;
Deut 8:3  He humbled you, causing you to hunger and then feeding you with manna, which neither you nor your fathers had known, to teach you that man does not live on bread alone but on every word that comes from the mouth of the LORD.
&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;
Matthew 4:4  Jesus answered, "It is written: 'Man does not live on bread alone, but on every word that comes from the mouth of God.'"&lt;/blockquote&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Spinoza said:<br />
<blockquote>That’s funny - I’ve read the Bible cover-to-cover about 4-5 times, and I don’t remember any discussion of genetics, DNA, information theory, or gene duplication. Could you please point me to the salient verses?</p></blockquote>
<p>You must of have missed these verses then:</p>
<blockquote><p>
Genesis 1:11-12<br />
	11 Then God said, &#8220;Let the land produce vegetation: seed-bearing plants and trees on the land that bear fruit with seed in it, according to their various kinds.&#8221; And it was so.<br />
	12 The land produced vegetation: plants bearing seed according to their kinds and trees bearing fruit with seed in it according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good.
</p></blockquote>
<blockquote><p>
Deut 8:3  He humbled you, causing you to hunger and then feeding you with manna, which neither you nor your fathers had known, to teach you that man does not live on bread alone but on every word that comes from the mouth of the LORD.
</p></blockquote>
<blockquote><p>
Matthew 4:4  Jesus answered, &#8220;It is written: &#8216;Man does not live on bread alone, but on every word that comes from the mouth of God.&#8217;&#8221;</p></blockquote>
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		<title>By: Spinoza</title>
		<link>http://www.worldontheweb.com/2008/04/03/enough-said-now/#comment-289815</link>
		<dc:creator>Spinoza</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Apr 2008 17:01:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.worldontheweb.com/2008/04/03/enough-said-now/#comment-289815</guid>
		<description>#47 Do you really understand what Royal Truman is saying or are you just reassured by a lot of techno-speak? If so, please summarize what you think are the key points - Truman is very long-winded!!

Truman adopts the creationist-only "Gitt" definition of information and coding that require an intelligent agency, so the whole article is a big tautology. See here for a rebuttal of "Gitt" information: 
&lt;a href="http://home.mira.net/~reynella/debate/gitt.htm" rel="nofollow"&gt;Information Theory and Creationism: Werner Gitt&lt;/a&gt;

In sum:
"&lt;i&gt;By asserting that data must have an intelligent source to be considered information, and by assuming genomic sequences are information fitting that definition, Gitt defines into existence an intelligent source for the genome without going to the trouble of checking whether one was actually there. This is circular reasoning.&lt;/i&gt;"

No wonder the main points of this article have never been accepted for publication in a professional science journal!

&lt;i&gt;Once again I can sleep soundly tonight knowing that the Bible still explains reality best.&lt;/i&gt;

That's funny - I've read the Bible cover-to-cover about 4-5 times, and I don't remember any discussion of genetics, DNA, information theory, or gene duplication. Could you please point me to the salient verses?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#47 Do you really understand what Royal Truman is saying or are you just reassured by a lot of techno-speak? If so, please summarize what you think are the key points - Truman is very long-winded!!</p>
<p>Truman adopts the creationist-only &#8220;Gitt&#8221; definition of information and coding that require an intelligent agency, so the whole article is a big tautology. See here for a rebuttal of &#8220;Gitt&#8221; information:<br />
<a href="http://home.mira.net/~reynella/debate/gitt.htm" rel="nofollow">Information Theory and Creationism: Werner Gitt</a></p>
<p>In sum:<br />
&#8220;<i>By asserting that data must have an intelligent source to be considered information, and by assuming genomic sequences are information fitting that definition, Gitt defines into existence an intelligent source for the genome without going to the trouble of checking whether one was actually there. This is circular reasoning.</i>&#8221;</p>
<p>No wonder the main points of this article have never been accepted for publication in a professional science journal!</p>
<p><i>Once again I can sleep soundly tonight knowing that the Bible still explains reality best.</i></p>
<p>That&#8217;s funny - I&#8217;ve read the Bible cover-to-cover about 4-5 times, and I don&#8217;t remember any discussion of genetics, DNA, information theory, or gene duplication. Could you please point me to the salient verses?</p>
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		<title>By: Spinoza</title>
		<link>http://www.worldontheweb.com/2008/04/03/enough-said-now/#comment-289806</link>
		<dc:creator>Spinoza</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Apr 2008 16:36:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.worldontheweb.com/2008/04/03/enough-said-now/#comment-289806</guid>
		<description>54 - &lt;i&gt;“Darwinian ideolog to enlighten ignorant believers on the overarching truth of natural selection by random variation as a substitute for Creation.”&lt;/i&gt;

I think I clarified in #45 that this is not even a remote approximation to my views!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>54 - <i>“Darwinian ideolog to enlighten ignorant believers on the overarching truth of natural selection by random variation as a substitute for Creation.”</i></p>
<p>I think I clarified in #45 that this is not even a remote approximation to my views!</p>
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