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Christianity: Also not about you
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Last time I wrote about how my pastor referenced in a sermon the subtitle to Gary Thomas’s book, Sacred Marriage: What if God Designed Marriage to Make Us Holy More Than to Make Us Happy? My pastor saw a connection to Christianity in general, and I think he’s on to something.
It does seem that many people view religions as ice cream flavors, and we the grubby children clutching our dollars and trying to decide which best suits our tastes. Many of us have an expectation that religion exists, like antibiotics and air conditioning, to make our lives more comfortable. This is certainly how social scientists write about it, with their analytical and precisely wrong-headed treatises on man’s religious impulses. Even neuroscientists get in on the act, trying to identify the part of the brain that is pleasantly stimulated when a person “practices spirituality.”
In that worldview, it is only the logic-wedded atheist who refuses the tonic, choosing to see the universe for what it is, an indifferent mass of elements in which by chance we have been situated. That’s a self-serving explanation of non-belief, of course, because if the atheist really does have only the here and now, the rational thing to do would be to take the tonic, and allow himself to be persuaded of a pleasant afterlife. Eating, drinking, and being merry, in other words, would logically include a self-delusion about the coming paradise.
The reason the atheist doesn’t allow this notion, however, is because even the most watered-down stories of God dethrone the Self. We are prone to fancy ourselves princes and princesses, after all. So the atheist does not bow down to God because his knees won’t bend — yet. For some this leads to a great sadness and searching, but for others it leads to self-adulation for their clarity of thought, as if the razor-sharp scientists, philosophers, and theologians of centuries past, who shaped the ideas on which even the atheist depends, were all muddle-headed fools.
I’ve been thinking about what it means to consider God as John F. Kennedy admonished us to consider our country. That’s a scary thought, to ask what we can do for God, rather than what he can do for us, because it suggests perilous paths. All this business about tending to the sheep and spreading the word tends to get one crucified, in one way or another. Isn’t there a sweeter flavor of ice cream in the freezer?
And there certainly is, there always is, because man specializes in sweet nothings. But what if Christianity really isn’t about making us happy? What if it really is about holiness? Not the self-righteous holiness practiced by those who think their Sunday suits disguise their stench, but the holiness that is separateness in spirit, combined with closeness in flesh, the famous in but not of the world that we Christians so often get completely backwards?
It’s a frightening notion, and an exhilarating one at the same time.
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Don’t blame racism
blessed is the man (does not blessed mean happy??) that walketh not in the counsel of the wicked,
nor standeth in the way of sinners,
nor sitteth in the seat of scoffers:
but his delight is in the law of Jehovah, and on his law doth he meditate day and night.
Is THIS too hard for God!?
Is our identity clear or are we confused?
and he shall be like a tree, planted by the rivers of water which bringeth forth its fruit in in its season, its leaf also does not whither, and whatsoever he doeth shall prosper…
drawing lines where God does not draw them, AND not recognizing God’s work in his own children is just another way of saying that there is no God
1-
the way I read Psalm one verse one is “happy is the one who is holy” and “everything he does wil prosper”
it is not for us to draw lines between parts of God’s reality…
God’s words and the use of his words are what define reality
Psalm 37:1-6
over-focus on the self is wrong in any form or slant
Here is the balance: (notice what is said about the wicked and the righteous)
Fret not thyself because of evil doers,
neither be thou envious against them that work unrighteousness.
For they shall soon be cut down like the grass,
and whither as the green herb.
trust in Jehovah and do good;
Dwell in the land and feed on his faithfulness.
delight thyself also in Jehovah;
And he will give thee the desires of thy heart.
commit they way unto Jehovah; trust also in him, and he will bring it to pass.
and he will make thy righteousness to go forth as the light. and thy justice as the noonday.
I attended a Passover Seder this weekend and met a Jewish man who, I think, considers religion in general myth. He also wanted to rewrite the Haggudah (spelling?) which is the words said at the the seder, telling me everything that was wrong with it. (And wasn’t it awful that God gave Miriam leprosy? he kept asking.)
This may sound odd, but I came away thinking, what’s so hard about following the precepts in the Bible? If you do, sure you may have bad times now and again, but you know where you’re going in the end. Willing to bend that knee and put everything in God’s hands making him the focus makes life go so much easier.
“wasn’t it awful that God gave Miriam leprosy?”
inablility to discern the entire context of God’s working
The analogy to ice cream flavors suggests that one can simply choose which flavor to consume. In my experience it doesn’t work that way. I can’t speak for any atheists, but I don’t perceive belief in God as something you consciously choose. Obedience, yes - if you believe there is a God and He has commanded you to live a certain way. But the belief to begin with - you have to be convinced in some way that there is evidence supporting that belief.
I struggled as a young teenager, having been raised in a liberal UCC church that convinced me God was irrelevant to my life, and having decided I was an agnostic, but thinking that having faith seemed rather attractive. But I couldn’t find the “switch” to turn on belief. The story of my conversion is a long one, which I’ve told before on this blog, but it included a lot of “I’m trying to believe but how do I know it’s really true” and “What if I didn’t believe the right way and that’s why I don’t seem to have the religious experiences these other Christians do?”
At some point (some 20 years later) I seriously considered the possibility that the whole faith thing was a mistake. And I discovered that I was convinced it was not, even if a lot of the details I had been taught in some churches might be mistaken. Even that wasn’t a conscious choice as I experienced it - I wasn’t faced with a fork in the road and the decision which was to go - I was already on one road and I could no more envision myself turning around to go the other way than I could envision myself turning a gun on myself or someone else.
Christianity: Also not about you
Why is it then that so many “praise” songs start with the words “I” or “we”? Shouldn’t they focus on “You” (God)? When you praise someone the focus should be on the praisee not the praiser.
Ditto.
Ditto Ditto Ditto.
8-
Would the Psalms serve as an example of focus?
Christianity is not about me. It is about the death and ressurection of Christ and what that has done for me. My attitude is thankfulness because of that.
By grace you are saved through faith, AND THAT IS NOT OF YOURSELVES, it is a gift of God–NOT by works, SO THAT NO ONE CAN BOAST. Ephesians 2:8
It couldn’t be more clear.
#10
Reg,
Absolutely!
3:3 But You, O LORD, are a shield for me, My glory and the One who lifts up my head.
3:8 Salvation belongs to the LORD. Your blessing is upon Your people.
4:7 You have put gladness in my heart, More than in the season that their grain and wine increased.
8:1 O LORD, our Lord, How excellent is Your name in all the earth, Who have set Your glory above the heavens!
84:1 How lovely is Your tabernacle, O LORD of hosts!
119:105 Your word is a lamp to my feet And a light to my path.
145:10 All Your works shall praise You, O LORD, And Your saints shall bless You.
Just a few of many verses that focus on God first; and even where the verses begin the word “!” notice how quickly they switch to talking about “the Lord”.
9:1 I will praise You, O LORD, with my whole heart; I will tell of all Your marvelous works.
16:7 I will bless the LORD who has given me counsel; My heart also instructs me in the night seasons.
16:8 I have set the LORD always before me; Because He is at my right hand I shall not be moved.
119:75 I know, O LORD, that Your judgments are right, And that in faithfulness You have afflicted me.
If I may be so bold, here, I suspect that the reason people like to think Christianity is all about “me” is because we live in a society that has been decidedly influenced by Arminianism. If man believes that salvation is something he chooses, then, the idea of choosing a church to fit one’s world view falls naturally into place. We also live in a culture where “sin” is winked at rather than confronted. The practice of church discipline is non-existent in most congregations today. I will be the 1st to say how much I admire John Wesley and the great work, he and his brother Charles did. However, in most of the United Methodist Churches here in America, you will see the fruits of Arminianism and how it has watered down the Gospel into a works based theology. I apologize in advance if I hurt anyone’s feelings but Salvation does not involve what Joe Baumgart does. It is about God calling me to repentance and faith and doing the work that I was unwilling and unable to do.
We would really do better to get our theology from the whole Bible and let it be what it is, than to vote for our theological champions, favorite verses, etc.
Joe B wrote;
“If man believes that salvation is something he chooses, then, the idea of choosing a church to fit one’s world view falls naturally into place.”
I don’t think there is anything necessarily self-centered or non-Christian with either choosing salvaion or choosing a church that fits one’s worldview, as long as that worldview is Biblically based and shaped.
Many Arminians believe that THE way one “chooses” slavation is to repent of one’s sinfulness in all humility and admit that one is lost in sin and thus to choose to take God’s hand to pull him out of a mess of his own making. It’s all about honestly recognizing our sin and God’s power to save and His plan of salvation as the only solution to our sin–and then choosing to surrender to that plan.
By the way, I believe in the sovereignty of God and that He alone is the author of salvation. But I don’t think you were fair to what Arminiamism teaches.
Most people who claim any connection with Arminiamism would say that you absolutely cannot “choose” salvation until you STOP winking at your sin.
One more thought:
Joe B wrote; “The practice of church discipline is non-existent in most congregations today.”
True, but I think I see it more in churches with a revivalist, or in some cases, an Arminian background than in churces with a Reformed background. But that’s an anecdotal observation.
While I would agree in some points Joel with your observations, the real issue is whether God is completely absolutely sovereign. If we understand the attributes of God and that He is absolutely completely Holy and that He will not have imperfection in His presence, man then understands that he is completely without hope and that only God alone can rescue him from the clutches of sin. Paul fully explains that man is dead without the sovereign work of God. One need only read Ephesians chapter 2 to understand his helplessness before a thrice Holy God.
I agree, Joe B.–the issue is the sovereignty of God. I was formed as an adult convert in two churches that come from a pietist background. I believe these churches also tend to be somewhat Arminian. However, as I read the Bible over the years, I saw that God chose and pursued me (not the other way around), that I was wretched and totally unable to choose to believe without his grace and his Spirit at work in my heart, and yes, finally, that God is utterly sovereign. My welcoming of his sovereignty over my life (and everything else) was almost like a “second conversion”–such joy I have never known. Finally I was enabled to say, “Yes, Lord, only your will, Lord”, and know I meant it. Praise him!
Great article, Tony!
Joe B,
I am not far from you theologically. I share your conviction that God gets full credit for salvation. But I have learned that too many Calvinists radically mis-state the convictions of the Arminian perspective to make their point, just as many Arminians often mis-state the Calvinist view to make their Arminian case.
Both believe that salvation is God’s free gift. The quibbling come in over the nature of our human capacity to choose to accept that gift and I understand that to some extent. But I have grown weary of the exaggerations from both sides to attempt to push the other perspective to the theological fringe.
Both sides have PLENTY of Bible passages to support their side as they understand it. Maybe, its just our inability to think more deeply about the true God that keeps the Calvinists and Arminians so far apart sometimes.
Have you ever heard the maxim: “Believe like a Calvinist and preach like and Arminian.”? I have, and I actually like it. That’s what I see the New Testament doing throughout.
Joe, I also think we agree on the point of this thread which seems to be that true Christianity is misunderstood by those who think it’s all about “me!” It’s about God, first and our first command is to love Him with all our heart, mind, soul. And our second is to love our neighbors.
I just think you gave more blame to the Arminian perspective for that “me” perspective than they deserve. Those who still respect God’s Word, still admit that our repentance comes first for all who seek to draw near to God and there cannot be any “me”ism in authentic repentance–even if it is understood as a chosen act of obedience.
I see the hand of God’s Holy Spirit even in our repentance and maybe I would quibble with Arminians at that level. But I am not one to write them off for their understanding of our obligations to God nor do I want to blame them unduly for theological or social ills. We all deserve some blame for that.
Joel, I do absolutely believe that many Arminans are true believers in Christ and that God has truly changed their lives. The question everyone must ponder is was it my decision to follow Christ or was it God calling me to himself. From the individual perspective, it appears that the individual makes the decision to repent and believe. From God’s perspective, He does the calling. He grants Repentance and Faith. What I am saying is that if we say that I made the decision, then it appears that God is not truly the sovereign king over the affairs of men.
I also do not believe that I as a Calvinist should disfellowship with my Arminian brothers.
I guess what I am trying to say is that because I once held the Arminian view, I was never secure in the finished work of Christ. Whan I read and re-read the book of Ephesians and re-read the book of Romans and fully understood the complete attributes of God’s Holiness, Justice, Wrath, Mercy, and Sovereignty, that I came to fully understand that in my falleness, I could never measure up to God and I had to completely throw myself upon his mercy.
Reg, I don’t know if you will revisit this thread, but I don’t think my new friend was even thinking that God really exists, so he didn’t really try to discern anything. Both he and his wife made numerous remarks about the OT vengeful God and were kinda laughing about it. His wife believes the Da Vinci Code (that Jesus was married and had children.
They seemed to be participating in the Seder because they’d done it since youth, and as a Jew, it’s what you do. Not a lot of reflection on the words being said at all. The man kept telling me how many more pages we had to go until the “festive meal.” Very nice man, happy and pleasant, I could talk to him about a lot of things, but I don’t think there is a lot of daily reflective thought about God at all.
My host took it more seriously, which is probably why I get along with him and his wife. We have found some common ground. She went with me to see Mel Gibson’s Passion movie, too.
I agree with your post at 14!
Even those who believe they chose to follow Christ know that they could not have so chosen if not first drawn by God.
As someone who falls somewhere in between Calvinism & Arminianism, I don’t understand why some believe that the sovereignty of God would be lessened by His allowing us to make a choice. It would still be in His sovereignty that He allowed that choice.
Karen O - I am with you on this one. I too believe that the truth lies somewhere in between the extreme ends of Calvinism and Armenianism.
oops - that’s Arminianism.
Since there are so many avowed Calvinists on this blog, I have kept my Arminian leanings to myself, not wanting to open up a can of worms.
Yeah, & let’s stop picking on the poor Armenians.
Klasko. I am not annoyed. I myself was an Arminian. I understand that I have to agree to disagree sometimes. I often disagree with my Preterist brothers and sisters.
Joe - Did you perhaps mistake Klasko’s “avowed Calvinists” for annoyed Calvinists?
Either way, I’m glad you’re not annoyed.
Joe B,
All points well taken. God bless!
Joe B - I hope you are not annoyed. I was not trying to be annoying.
I have several Calvinist friends who have felt the need to try to “fix” me. (Which is the main reason I have kept some things to myself).
I am happy that you are now secure in the finished work of Christ. As am I. I too throw myself on His mercy.
I usually agree to disagree with my Clavinist friends.
“I am happy that you are now secure in the finished work of Christ. As am I. I too throw myself on His mercy.”
Amen, Sister!
How Blessed it is to have brothers and sisters in the faith to love and support one another. We may not all agree but we are all one in Christ. George Whitfield was once asked if he would see John Wesley in heaven. George replied that he would not be able to see John because would be so close to the Throne of God that the Glory of God would over shadow John
21-NJLawyer,
Thank you! Your unbelieving friend did the same thing that “believers” do. He took something out of context, demonstrating unbelief and misunderstanding of the whole.
Joe B. - Exactly.
I don’t agree, comparing belief in Jesus Christ as religious choices, to “ice cream flavors” — I’ve never heard of anyone looking at religion like “antibiotics” or “air conditioning” to make their lives more comfortable. I find these comparisons to be flip, as we seek truth.
It’s not about what we can do for GOD, its what GOD did for us by sending HIS Son to die for our sins. Only after realizing our sinful condition, knowing we need the LORD do we repent, turn from sin, and believe in the LORD Jesus Christ as our Savior. After Salvation, we are all indwelt with the Holy Spirit, it is the Holy Spirit which guides us to use our gifts for the LORD. We all have gifts, some more than others, but it’s the gift we use to glorify GOD. We can do nothing without the LORD’s help, and guidance, so in essence He is working through us to accomplish HIS plan, NOT us doing something for GOD. It’s not us, its HIM. He is the potter, we are the clay.
Grandma - 11 - you state it so simply, and truthfully.
Klasko - 23 - I agree with you on this.
The movie was worth the price of admission for one nearly perfect moment. When Stein questioned Dawkins about where he ‘theorized’ life had come from. Dawkins then proceeds to put forth the “It came from outer space’ theory. It was almost to good to be true. After ridiculing the idea of a Creator - he defaults to the idea that “spacemen” brought it here. Ben Stein should get an oscar for that scene alone. What a triumph!