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Anyone with blood running through his veins is thinking about suffering right now. In whatever direction you turn on the compass, it’s there. A whole branch of philosophy called Theodicy has evolved to explain the problem of evil. Here are a couple of thoughts to steady wobbly knees, namely my own:
First, whenever I am just about to bail out of Christianity because of the problem of suffering, it is then that I am confronted with a different problem on the other side — the problem of good, and of beauty. In the beginning, the bugbear was that evil didn’t seem to fit my theology of a good God; now, in the new camp, it is all the goodness and loveliness I see that are a philosophical fly in the ointment.
Next, I concede that there is a lot about justice and righteousness that I don’t understand. I can’t even make up my mind whether it’s okay to take my dog to a park that has a “No dogs” sign that is universally ignored. And even from nation to nation we can’t agree on things like the just way to deal with criminals. Life in prison? Electric chair?
Also, I have noticed that I am not inclined to want God when I am doing quite well without him. If we presume that we are made for relationship and eternal bliss with him, I am advantaged if he uses the megaphone of affliction to get my attention.
C.S.Lewis challenges the oft heard wail about the “unimaginable sum of human misery.” He says “there is no such thing, for no one suffers it. When we have reached the maximum that a single person can suffer, we have, no doubt, reached something very horrible, but we have reached all the suffering there can be in the universe.”
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Soul searching
Preventing or stopping my suffering and making me happy is just not the first item on God’s job description. Where did we ever get the idea it was supposed to be? Jesus<God’s own Son, was a “man of sorrows” and God knew he would be. In fact, it was God’s plan. And God let Jesus go all the way to the cross, not stopping his own Son’s sorrow, even when Jesus painfully prayed for his “cup” to pass from him.
But Jesus also prayed to His Father, God; “Thy will be done.”
The problem of pleasure and beauty…excellent reminder, Andree. Thanks!
Something wrong with the last sentence. Maybe it should say “but we have not reached”?
Andree,
‘First, whenever I am just about to bail out of Christianity because of the problem of suffering, ‘
Do you really find yourdself about to bail out of Christianity very often?
‘I can’t even make up my mind whether it’s okay to take my dog to a park that has a “No dogs” sign that is universally ignored.’
Your kidding right?
‘I am advantaged if He uses the megaphone of affliction to get my attention.’
So you feel privileged if God afflicts you in some way to get your attention? Are you that far from Him? His afflictions can be pretty terrible so I wouldn’t think that feeling good about being afflicted for any reason by Him is healthy do you?
LLama,
Andree didn’t say privileged, she said advantaged. Big difference.
And on the first two questions I can’t answer for Andree, but I will;) I think she’s exaggerating to make a point. Part of our faith is to contend with our doubts.
Andreé,
I would add “meaning” to your list of problems.
The problems of meaning, good, and beauty for the atheist or agnostic seem to have no answer that makes any sense.
Rats. Got the symbol on the wrong “e”. Oh well, at least I know how to do it now.
Llama,
I wonder about the faith of people who have absolutely no doubts about the veracity of their beliefs. It’s a matter of trust. It’s an imperfect crooked road we travel, and we must look out for the potholes, switchbacks, and snakeoil salesmen, not to mention bandits. If we blindly trust without thinking we’re liable to wind up in trouble.
My husband heard variations of the suffering (or the existence of evil) question often at work. It seems to be a reason many say they reject God. His answer was to suggest that if they throw out God, what great answers does that give them? They usually had nothing to say.
It would seem to be similar to when many people left Jesus and he asked his disciples if they too would leave. The response is, “Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life.” They could see that though things may have seemed hard and impossible when following Jesus, death was the other choice.
I have to agree with Andree, that we are privileged to have God do whatever he needs to in order to get our attention. He did need to throw Paul off his horse, didn’t he?
Just as a parent has to discipline, the bible is clear that God does discipline us. Sometimes that is with affliction. I would hope never to need it, but know how easily my feet slip. That is not to say that all suffering is God’s discipline.
MIM - One can have an unshakable faith in God.
All one has to do is ask God for an unshakable faith, but be prepared for the trial of faith that inevetibly comes with such a request. When you pray a prayer like that, you will be given an opportunity to exercise faith and it will grow exponentially.
The price is high, but then so are the stakes and the reward.
I like the answer my Pastor gives when someone asks “Where was God when [some bad thing happened]?” He replies, “The same place He was on the afternoon of Good Friday.”
#5 Adios,
I believe you will find advantaged and privileged are synonyms. At least they are for crossword puzzles and in the Word’s thesaurus.
I hope she is using these ideas as hyperbole but she uses this concept of overstating quite a bit to set up a point she would like to make. I find it all hard to believe anyone is that messed up.
I am just concerned that if she is afflicted in all the ways she claims, we need to get her to a shrink right away but i’m not sure one shrink can handle all of those afflictions
#12
And what comfort or counsel would a shrink offer? Try to talk her into the idea that she is imagining the suffering? Or that suffering is “normal”? Or that one shouldn’t ascribe the source of suffering to God? To take responsibility for fantisizing about suffering?
I know you were being light hearted about mentioning the shrink but I’m curious about what people expect from shrinks in such situations.
LLAMA - With regard to Andree being messed up, consider the following…
Matt. 16:18 - “Now I say to you that you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church, and the powers of hell will not conquer it.”
Matt. 16: 23 - Jesus turned to Peter and said, “Get away from me Satan! You are a dangerous trap to me. You are seeing things merely from a human point of view, and not from God’s”.
Hmmm…what’s going on here? The rock on which Christ would build His church is called Satan a short time later?!? I think Peter had wobbly knees which is exactly why Jesus chose him. It is the dilemma as old as suffering versus good; that is, why does God choose unstable people to do His greatest works? Probably because unstable folks know their strength comes from God, not themselves.
Now Llama, if I recall from another post, you are a veteran. Me too. God bless you for being confident and certain of who you are, where you are in this world and knowing how to take action to get things done. We need folks like you not only in our military, but in God’s world. But, God bless those who dance along the cliff ledge for they push the envelope for us all as they struggle with their own uncertainties. This can be seen in writing, art, drama and in helping those in similar circumstances. We can best help those with afflictions when we are afflicted ourselves.
At the risk of heresy, maybe the Beatitudes could mean, “Blessed are they with wobbly knees, for they shall rely on God; The True Rock of Their Salvation”.
andree, you write about topics that are pertinent to me, like this one on suffering all around us. what all this suffering makes me think of is the end times and whether we are getting closer to His return. i’m so glad i have His Word to inform my world view and to encourage me in the need of the moment. (thanks for the use of His Word throughout your writings, btw.)
in a passage about signs of the coming of the end of the age, Jesus tells us (matthew 24:6): “see to it that you are not alarmed.” oh, He knows me well and that i feel very alarmed when thousands upon thousands are wiped away by cyclones (burma) and earthquakes (china) or tornadoes (the south) or fires (florida) OR osama bin ladan releases a new message keeping terrorism alive OR OR OR…..
on another note, thanks for continuing to write for WORLD even tho when some folks “join the conversation” their comments are so critical and caustic! i don’t see how you do it!