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For 10 years now, a unique event has inspired fathers and daughters to pursue purity. Dubbed the Father-Daughter Purity Ball, creators Randy and Lisa Wilson–themselves the parents of five daughters–say they created the event not only to challenge young girls to a higher standard, but also to help fathers who are clueless about the role they should play in their daughters’ lives.
During the black-tie affairs, which are held all across the nation, fathers and daughters commit to uphold purity in their lives, with fathers vowing to safeguard their young daughters’ purity in mind, body, and soul. The concept has drawn a lot of attention:
And inevitably the criticism arrived as well, dressed up in social science and scholarly glee at the semiotics of girls kneeling beneath raised swords to affirm their purity. The events have been called odd, creepy, oppressive of a girl’s “sexual self-agency,” as one USA Today columnist put it. Father-daughter bonding is great, the critics agree–but wouldn’t a cooking class or a soccer game be emotionally healthier than a ceremony freighted with rings and roses and vows? Some academic skeptics make a practical objection: The majority of kids who make a virginity pledge, they argue, will still have sex before marriage but are less likely than other kids to use contraception, since that would involve planning ahead for something they have promised not to do. This puts them at risk for sexually transmitted diseases. To which defenders say: Teen pledgers typically do postpone having sex, have fewer partners, get pregnant less often and if they make it through high school as virgins, are twice as likely to graduate from college–so where’s the downside?
What are your thoughts about the Purity Ball? Do any of you have personal experience attending one?
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Soul searching
there are characters of all sorts in every arena
yet another contrived setting to take the place of real relationships functioning in the home and at a community level, where people cantruly know each other
much better to read a book in a family and work together with friends, where real relationships already exist, so the whole thing doesn’t feel artificial, that was how my daughter responded to the purity conference we attended
and as to getting dressed up (to be like which worldly event-the prom, or what?) to vow to do the opposite of that which the event imitates, give me a break
While I don’t believe everyone, male or female, will want to go to college, I found this statement very encouraging: “…and if they make it through high school as virgins, are twice as likely to graduate from college….”
It has long been my belief that if girls were encouraged to take their time growing up, learn about who they are, figure out what they really want to do and/or be, there would be a lot less pregnancy, abortion, living together before marriage, divorce, etc., etc. While I don’t understand the “swords,” perhaps I would do a different ceremony, I think it is important that the pressure be taken off young girls to perform in the sexual arena just because “everyone else is doing it.” A father who takes the time to explain that what boys want and what grown men ultimately want may very well be different does his daughter a good service and shows her that she is loved. He teaches her self-worth.
I’m all for this, even if people think it’s corny.
a really useful skill in our world today would be the ability to discern the MANY form of entertainment that exist, more than currently admit, many things that we don’t call entertainment actually are entertainment
“It has long been my belief that if girls were encouraged to take their time growing up, learn about who they are, figure out what they really want to do and/or be, there would be a lot less pregnancy, abortion, living together before marriage, divorce, etc., etc. While I don’t understand the “swords,” perhaps I would do a different ceremony, I think it is important that the pressure be taken off young girls to perform in the sexual arena just because “everyone else is doing it.” A father who takes the time to explain that what boys want and what grown men ultimately want may very well be different does his daughter a good service and shows her that she is loved. He teaches her self-worth.”
This happens best in a personal setting. like the home
I have never been to one and would have no desire to do so. I am a mother, though, so I wouldn’t be attending anyway. I know my husband would have no desire to attend either. I am all for dads learning more about what they should be about for both their sons and daughters. Frank discussions are good.
I have noticed that purity is not only the issue in some of these things, but a kind of bragging about it. One young woman and family were big on boasting that her first kiss was at the altar. I wondered why she thought every kiss was a sexual thing and what was the purpose of telling everyone? Paul says if we want to boast to make sure it is in the Lord, not about ourselves.
One mom told me that her husband had turned down seven men that wanted to marry there daughter! I wondered if the daughter was so ignorant about who was a good choice or if the father was so picky that no one could live up to his expectations. BTW: my husband says no one is good enough for his daughters! However, he says he wasn’t good enough for me either. He says that is just a given.
When I hear this kind of boasting I seriously wonder what we think the gospel is about.
…” young woman and family were big on boasting that her first kiss was at the altar. I wondered why she thought every kiss was a sexual thing and what was the purpose of telling everyone”?”
I know someone like this. she said that it was very difficult to kiss for the first time at the altar. How awkward.
The world has all kinds of people in it, Reg.
While the church I grew up in didn’t promote such a formal event, we (boys and girls) were taught in youth service what was at stake and what was to be valued. That was important, because that’s not what was happening in secular high school. If this event provides the same incentive, I’m not opposed to it.
Will there always be girls who are totally innocent or brag? Yes. But the young bride you describe as “awkward” didn’t go to the altar with an STD either, didn’t get pregnant in high school and wasn’t faced with the decision to have a baby or an abortion. So, laugh at the awkward girl all you want. What did she really lose?
Should father’s take this so seriously that they decide which men to turn down for their daughter? No. No father should be doing that. But allowing a young girl to develop and mature isn’t a crime. Had I not had those expectations laid out by the church and family, had I not had a group of other girls around me with the same ideals in my teen years, when I hit my 20s and met the wrong man, I wouldn’t have had a great foundation to tell him point blank that I wanted more. This guy has had three wives. I’m still grateful not to have been one of them.
For me this isn’t so much about “purity” — though it’s a good thing — as it is to give girls a chance to grow up with self-respect.
Reg,
You are welcome to own opinion but I would think it is pretty obvious, and you seem to be a master of the the obvious, that raising children starts at home. That of course doesn’t preclude other rewards for fine performance to back up a fine upbringing of instilling good character attributes in your children as a parent.
Incentives do wonders when it comes to ensuring performance goals are met. Recognition for a job well done is also a plus. When you roll it all into one you have a well thought out, fine plan and organization to ensure that your daughter turns out to be a fine lady, has all the character attrbutes and skills required for successs while ensuring she avoids the horrible pitfals along the way that would make her a ward of the state one day.
Yeah, I can see where it must be really hard on secular types when they run into one of these ladies. It might make them complain about it and say these ladies and their fathers are all insane and worthless and how they, as intellectual elitists know it alls, know so much better about this subject (and all others for that matter) or some such nonsense.
Glad you didn’t fall into that trap
NJLawyer: I am all for girls maturing and yes, it is both parent’s responsibility to aid them in that, but to expect perfection in a young man or woman is expecting more than God does. The young woman I was talking about is around thirty. If it were a case of maturity, she better hurry. She is a wonderful young woman, BTW.
I would never laugh at any of these girls or the ceremony. I would like to see a bigger issue addressed, that of legalism and a boasting in self rather than in the Lord. It seems so much of the emphasis is on our will-power, rather than on God’s power. I know this is not true for everyone, but I have run into it so much lately, that I am concerned.
God does call for us to be perfect, but he gives us that perfection through Christ. In this life we will always be maturing more and more. To expect someone in their twenties to have the maturity of someone in the forties or fifties is not realistic. I realize there are some six year olds more mature than some fifty year olds, but that is different. We also do not all have perfect family backgrounds, but that is what some people seem to expect of anyone who will marry their children.
llama, Would you attend one of these balls? Just curious.
Virginity is temporary. An unwanted child lives for 70 years and, while young, often messes up several lives. AIDS, herpes and some other STD’s last forever.
A father who insists on virginity and doesn’t engage in truly honest, regular discussions with his daughter is being extremely irresponsible.
And given that, IN MY EXPERIENCE, fathers who are most concerned about such matters are the least likely to be able to discuss sex frankly with anyone, much less their daughters, events like this are only appropriate for very few people.
A father who insists on virginity and doesn’t engage in truly honest, regular discussions with his daughter is being extremely irresponsible.
Certainly. But I get the impression that when you say “engage in truly honest…” what you mean is to explain to your kids about protection options and their importance. That’s where we would disagree.
Surely you can understand the mixed messages you send to a child when you say, “Honey, you should not have sex before marriage…but if you do, here’s how you should do it.” To me, that’s like saying, “Honey, you should not get involved with drugs…but if you do, make sure you’re getting them from a reputable source and here are some tips to avoid overdose.”
I totally agree about the importance to have regular, honest discussions. Parents who take their children’s purity seriously MUST maintain regular communication and show a real interest in their kids’ lives.
fathers who are most concerned about such matters are the least likely to be able to discuss sex frankly with anyone
I believe it. I think a lot of conservatives have a hard time speaking openly about sex because we so often are associating it with sin. NOT that sex itself is sinful, but most of the time when I hear someone talking about it, it’s regarding the misuse of sex.
I think fathers would serve their daughters better if they made their own pledge of purity to the daughter’s mother. Live the life you want for your children.
I have an old school approach — a baseball bat by the door.
A honest relationship with one’s daughter is better than any contrived corny ritual.
Arcadia, this is a very harsh, and indeed, nasty, paragraph –
“An unwanted child lives for 70 years and, while young, often messes up several lives.”
The child doesn’t mess up several lives, the people who conceive the child mess up their own. Your thinking is skewed there.
KI, I was aiming for Reg’s “awkward,” more than for you. I don’t expect perfection from anyone, nor do I think it was expected of me. What was taught to us was a proper standard of conduct FOR OUR WELFARE, and by observing that standard in one’s teen years, one was able to get an education, become an adult, and make mature decisions. When I was small, my 1907-born father’s lesson on stealing was his father’s: “if you steal and you come walking down this street and you see this door (to the home), keep on walking.” My mother modified that for us when we became teenaged girls to: “if you get pregnant, etc., etc. I don’t want any bundles on my doorstep.” These were parents who instilled the fear of the Lord in us, so these things never happened. I didn’t chew gum in school because I didn’t want to see the disappointed look on their faces if they ever got a call from the school. But it never occurred to me that they wouldn’t be there for me if I messed up, and we talked about that often, always with what we called the “keep on walking” reminder at the end, which we laugh about now.
Perfection is unrealistic, and it’s childish to think it can be attained. That doesn’t mean that parents shouldn’t teach a high standard. And sometimes, other girls who are not taught that high standard may learn about this purity thing and adopt it on their own. You never know who you reach. Sometimes it’s the girl next door who isn’t talked to at all.
I answer honestly any questions my children (three boys and one girl) ask about sex. I would rather they learn from me first than any other source while I have the opportunity.
So true: NJLawyer.
My mother always told my brothers not to call her if they got in trouble for this, that or the other thing. One of my brothers landed in jail for drinking. He never called home. When she found out and went and got him out, she asked him why he hadn’t called her. He looked at her mystified and said, “You always told us not to call you!”
The drawback to things like this is that it makes a god out of virginity. The girls who fail (and there are many who do), end up being devastated and thinking their life is ruined.
Also, why is there never any of this kind of stuff focused on males?
Anlir,
Both good points.
That’s why I think (in agreement with many on this thread) that purity must be cultivated by the lifelong commitment of parents to instruct and build relationships with their children, and not simply fancy dinners.
Within the framework of such a commitment, though, I think fancy dinner-type events are a great idea. Every year, my church has a father-daughter “high tea,” and while I’ve never gone to one (being neither a father nor a daughter), I think it’s a really cool way for fathers and daughters to build and strengthen their relationship.
Anlir,
There is. I run in Christian circles, and it has been a long time since purity only applied to girls.
I believe strongly in teaching young girls and boys — keeping themselves until they marry to have sex, the Bible is clear about this.
My thoughts about a ‘prom’ type event and taking a sort of vow/pledge for fathers and daughters would never happen in our home. First of all there are two parents, not just one.
Taking vows should be taken very seriously by children. Kids are tempted all the time, some make errors in having sex which are wrong, but then to make it worse they have the shame of the pledge they made to their own dad, broken, at an early age, feeling hopeless and a complete failure.
What people are forgetting is this; we should do our very best to teach our kids about the LORD Jesus Christ, and HIS plan for our/their lives. Teach them about sexual sin before marriage, pray with them to have strength to avoid the temptation of sex before marriage, but lets not forget all the other sins, and then be an EXAMPLE to children regarding not only sexual sin, but all sin, avoiding it, and KNOWING that GOD has given us an ESCAPE. It’s not through ‘dress up affairs’ and ‘pledges’ which can be broken, but by the POWER of GOD which he promises in HIS Word.
The passage of Scripture which EVERYONE should learn is:
Victoria-
I would agree with you…”My thoughts about a ‘prom’ type event and taking a sort of vow/pledge for fathers and daughters would never happen in our home. First of all there are two parents, not just one.”
And both parents are involved in this lifestyle teaching while the children are in the home
Anlir,
“The drawback to things like this is that it makes a god out of virginity.”
Good point, not to be missed.
Organized religion has lots of experience making gods out of many good things. Even the study of one book out of the Bible can become a god as it is taken out of context of the entire word of God and used for contrived purposes.
15-
“baseball bat by the door”…
could you please explain how this has worked for you and what results have you seen?
One understands why conservative Christians are gung-ho for this type of event. It falls right in line with their patriarchal worldview.
One can see the patriarchal thread running from events like this all the way back to the Old Testament, where a daughter was considered her father’s property, to be bartered and bargained with.
Reg, so right you are. Even if there is only one parent, that parent can still be the EXAMPLE.
GOD knows the situation in every home whether there are two parents or one. It’s hard work being a parent under any circumstances, but you’ve sure had your share with four all alone. I’m so happy that you have found someone to share your life with. Many are not that fortunate.
How many people when grown, look back and remember the lone parent who raised them, worked so hard, watched them follow Christ, that one parent was their ‘model’ and the LORD was their help through all the tough times. There are many stories of grown children who have watched the EXAMPLE of the lone parent trusting the LORD daily for their needs.
Victoria does have a good point about making vows. The bible warns us about making them to God. There have been some dire consequences after such vows. I don’t know the nature of the vows in the ceremony, however. It would be nice to hear from several who have attended such events.
The fathers attending such an event are probably not the type to barter and bargain with their daughters. I know of no such men among all the Christian men I know.
Ki,
I was present during a ‘promise’ it was done with a very beautiful ring from father to daughter.
Things haven’t worked out very well, — I won’t say anything more concerning the situation. I will add she didn’t have to get married.
Anlir if you read the thread you’d see ‘most everyone has disagreements with this thing.
I guess as a “daddy’s girl” I don’t see the harm in a father taking an interest in his daughter’s future. After all, he’s the first man in a girl’s life, and she will judge men against this role model.
My father was the first one to tell me if I wanted to go to law school, he would find a way to help me. It was a good twenty years before I went, and my dad was in a nursing home by then, but he didn’t discourage me as a teenager even when it was really out of reach. I will always be grateful for that.
NJL
I believe every parent, mother and father should take a strong interest in their children, both male and female. Taking a loving strong interest in our children doesn’t mean we need them to make vows/pledges to seal the deal.
It’s wonderful that you were able to attend law school and your dad backed you up, took an interest in your dream of becoming a lawyer — however, that isn’t the same, nor is it a comparison to ‘prom’ type events, with vow/pledge ceremony’s attached to such an evening of sexual purity before marriage.
I’ll grant you, Victoria, that dear old dad wouldn’t have wanted to participate in such an event, and no one asked me to pledge or make any vows (except at confirmation), and I doubt that I personally would have wanted to make such a public declaration about this subject, but I really can’t condemn fathers who do take an interest. I don’t see this in as negative a light as many of you do. To me, this is very like a father/daughter dance which has nothing to do with purity. It’s a little corny to a Jersey girl, but it’s also kinda sweet.
KI,
If invited by my daughter, of course I would go. It sounds like a great evening. If she wanted me to support it more, I would pay for it if necessary.
Unlike secularists, I would not buy my daughter birth control pills, or birth control devices like condoms, or zucchinis to practice putting them nor would I purchase drugs or hooch for her or anyone else.
I have a friend who drinks and smokes pot and does other drugs with his minor daughter almost on a daily basis. He became upset when I asked him if he was sleeping with her too but he didn’t answer my question either. So I asked him what stopped him from sleeping with his daughter, if he wasn’t sleeping with her, and this even upset him more but still I got no answer. I’m guessing it is a 50/50 proposition.
LLAMA: It sounds like your friend needs a lot of prayer. Does he realize there is a difference between being a friend and being a father? My husband had no good role models for fathering. Many men don’t. I hope you can plant some seed there. (My husband was a great father,however.)
I guess I’m not sure if it would be the daughters asking the dads. I’m fairly sure it happens the other way around. Mom probably has something to say about that too.
I’m glad you love your daughter so much. It will mean all the difference in the world to her.
And Llama may also be the model father his friend’s daughter may look up to. That she may see a father wouldn’t drink with his daughter or hand her drugs may be the one thing that makes her ultimately search for someone who isn’t like dear old dad at all.
I wouldn’t go to a ball like taht.It just seems to awkward. I do have a purity ring though. My parent gave it to me for Chrisrmas. Both of my parents were involved and it was really positive.
I love the idea of a father/daughter dance, but tying it to the pressure of making this vow seems counter-productive.
Even if well-intentioned, this sort of public commitment ceremony surely leads to some false vows among the genuine ones.
Looks like an external approach, hoping for an internal heart condition.
BTW, Dad took me to a Freshman Fathers dance my freshman year of college. It was a really sweet, special time. He was a well-intentioned workaholic, but this scheduled event helped us make a wonderful memory that probably wouldn’t have happened without the obvious opportunity.
Mom and I did other special things together. I think it’s great to do some things all together, but also to make time for memories with one parent or the other…
Now my husband takes our kids (boys and girls) on occasional “Daddy Dates”–a treat for them and him!
Re making vows: I know someone who has kids sign pledges that they won’t drink, smoke, or take illegal drugs. Well, first, I don’t think a nonparent has a right to ask a child for that kind of commitment, but second, since the Bible allows drinking, trying to bind the conscience of a child on that issue is wrong. (In my opinion, the child who reaches adulthood and changes his mind on that issue is not bound by it, and the adult who reaffirms the vow is. Thus the childhood vow is meaningless anyway. A vow made by an older adolescent probably would be biblically binding if parents approve.)
But on a purity vow, since a young person is being asked to vow what is already a biblical absolute, I don’t see a problem with the vow. After all, a person who is breaking a marriage vow is adding the sin of breaking a vow to the adultery, and I don’t see that as a problem–it makes it that much more serious. I wouldn’t ask younger adolescents to do it, wouldn’t ask for everyone in a given group (the whole youth group) to do it, and I would stress the very strong nature of a vow. But I would think a daughter (or son) making this vow to the father or parents is biblically justifiable.
I take vows (and promises) very seriously, BTW–I once was willing to drive a friend somewhere because I had promised to do so, although the predicted change in weather terrified me. Normally in winter I said something like, “if the weather is OK,” and I hadn’t added that clause and thus found my promise binding. The friend questioned me, determined that I was scared and didn’t really want to do it with the weather report, and let me out of my promise. I say this only to say that I don’t think promises and vows should be made lightly, but a vow that lines up with a biblical absolute is acceptable, I think.
If we can’t vow to maintain sexual purity, why can we covenant to repay a mortgage? It isn’t quite as serious a promise, and usually has escape clauses like repossession, but still, we are granted biblical authority to make promises. Biblically a child’s or wife’s promise can be annulled by the husand/father, and I think it can also be confirmed by the father–whether or not his wife is present. I’m not saying I’d push for my kids to make such a vow, but that I think it’s biblically legitimate.
I am all for parents taking an active role in protecting their children’s (not just their daughters, please) virtue and exhorting them to live a life of purity both before and after marriage, should that occur. However, the public spectacle of a father-and-daughter event does strike me as rather odd. Where are the teenage boys taking virginity pledges with their mothers? I understand about the father being head of the house and everyone, and being the spiritual leader, but it seems the issue focuses too strongly on making sure women are virgins, while the teenage boys have less of an obligation to remain so.
Les_arbres - 40
Excellent point.
Does the Word of God ask that daughters make pledges to their fathers and God or mothers regarding purity? We tend to think a teen will be more likely to obey their parent more than GOD? - when it comes to sex, that’s why the pledge/vows exist — I don’t agree —
A girl in many states can marry at 16, take her vows with her husband — then break the vow a year or so later, — in the same way a girl can make a vow with her father and then break that same vow 6 months a year later. To fail, to vow something at that age, and then in a moment of careless emotions do exactly what the young girl vowed not to do, not only to her father, but more importantly to God is a dangerous position to be in.
I certainly wouldn’t want to put that sort of potential stumbling stone in a daughters path.
As parents we need to raise our children to know the LORD, to come to Salvation, to study HIS Word –
Victoria,
It’s a dangerous position to be in even if she hasn’t specifically vowed not to do so. Unforgiveable? No, but surely dangerous. That’s why I’m not completely opposed to something that shows her how very serious this is, as long as it’s biblical.
Good point about the obedience to parents vs. obedience to God. I don’t know how these vows are done; they might be vows to God in the presence of parents. (I tend to think the public nature of this event might make girls make the vow who have no intention of keeping it. But I have no strong opinion one way or the other on whether they’re a good idea. Definitely boys need to be urged just as strongly. A father/son event might actually be even more powerful, in terms of making a commitment stick.)
These sorts of events resemble a sort of ‘mock wedding’ between a father and daughter —
There are groups who are doing these ceremonies with girls as young as 9-14.
Research some of these events, the way there carried out, the ages of the girls, placing rings on their fingers, roses under crosses.
I would want nothing to do with this ceremony.
Urging young men and women to obey God in the area of sexual purity is a good thing. Making it a community event (even a church family event) involving taking a vow is another matter because it tempts the young people to give lip service to the vow in order to please people (fear of man), rather than making a commitment out of conviction that it is the right thing to do.
Compliant kids will do what is expected of them in the moment. My guess is that many of these girls are pressured to vow, rather than initiating it.
Momof5 - 44
Your last sentence is correct. Sometimes the ring is given as a ’surprise’ to the girl on a special occasion.
Vows to God and man in my view should not be made by children, adults are another story.
Do parents really believe that a ring, a mock wedding with all the trimings to imitate a real wedding will keep a girl from sinning?
To my knowledge the vow/pledge has been going on for over 14 years. I hadn’t heard about it taking place for a long time until this thread appeared.
I feel very badly for the girl who agrees to this ceremony, and THEN fails. I doubt she would want to tell her parents about what she had done, not mention if the outcome was a pregnancy.
We try and teach our children right from wrong, sinful behavior, but we need to be CAREFUL to give them the ability to come to us when mistakes are made. Shame is a terrible thing, some kids are haunted by what their parents will say to them, how they will embrace them. My heart goes out to kids who get in trouble and can’t tell mom or dad because they are so humiliated. The ring sure could be the barrier.
Then if a pregnancy didn’t occur, how could the daughter wear the ring the next day? — what would the questions be at the breakfast table? — The whole idea has PAIN written all over it.
Let our vows be made to GOD, when we are old enough to know what we are doing, and wise enough to keep them. ~~ Victoria
Here’s another idea — and it may appear counter-productive, but it makes sense to me. Why not instill in one’s children the knowledge that premarital sex is simply not acceptable to the family and will under no circumstances be tolerated, but without an absurdly out of proportion focus on virginity?
It’s not a de-valuing of virginity to not obsess over it in over-the-top ceremonies. Chasity is a virtue, like prudence or patience. Remaining a virgin until marriage is a wonderful and laudable thing, but it should not be one’s entire life purpose.
Over-emphasizing virginity also encourages, for women, the reduction of one’s worth to whether or not one is pure. This perception is not equally balanced across the genders by any means; it is usually the women who are held the lofty banner of virginity, more so than the men.
I write all this from the perspective of someone who grew up in a strict, loving, fairly conservative home, where it was understood that sex before marriage would not be tolerated. This was not something beaten into my head at every opportunity; it came to me nearly by osmosis and through my parents’ teaching. I am all for reforming the culture, pursuing purity on a personal level, and encouraging chastity on a wider scale for all people (not just young unmarried women!), but a swing in the opposite direction from promiscuity, where virginity is all a woman has to offer, is not welcome either.
On that note, an *excellent* book related to matters of virginity is the fantastic Lauren Winner’s _Real Sex_, which I found to be honest and refreshing.
Les_arbres - 46
If one is a Believer, being a virgin until marriage is what GOD would want. Perhaps it’s not popular in today’s society but it is highly valuable to our LORD. Is it “ones entire-life purpose” ? - I would have to ask you WHAT IS GOD’S PURPOSE for our lives? Sexual sin, whether it be pornography, sex with whomever, ruin’s lives. Just look at STD’s, AID’s HIV, so now lets look at your question of “Remaining a virgin until marriage is a wonderful and laudable thing, but it should not be one’s entire life purpose.” - - - - I would ask you why NOT? Is sexual sin so causal that we throw it aside and consider something else?
I’m intrigued by your comparison of virginity to worth. It’s not a matter of balance, its God’s Holy Word which teaches women to be virgin’s before marriage. If men are going to sin, so be it, they will answer to GOD.
Read God’s Word in relation to the men who wanted to stone the woman dead because she had sinned and was an adulteress - is there something in those passages you don’t understand? The men had made sport of women, they weren’t sinless.
Think about David and his sin, he watched the woman from atop his house, his mind wondered, the image germinated to form a desire to sin - David sent for the woman and she became pregnant. From this point we see where sin leads. The child which he and Bath-shu’a conceived was taken from them, as the Bible records David’s sin.
Bath-sheba was also called Bath-shu. Please excuse the confusion.
Victoria,
I am *not* saying that the pursuit of chastity is not a good thing and part of God’s plan for all people, only that it is not the only laudable thing to pursue. Are there ceremonies where young girls pledge to be patience, kind, not gossipers, faithful, etc.? Why a ceremony *only* focused on virginity?
I agree that men who fall sexually are sinners in the eyes of God (as are all men not covered by Christ’s righteousness). It is simply that, in more conservative and highly patriarchal Christian circles, women have higher expectations to remain pure until their wedding days, more so then the men. A main point of evidence: Where are the balls when BOYS take vows to remain pure? Where is their spectacle, their public acknowledgment?
In conclusion, I assert that virginity is a worthy pursuit *in the complete package* of one’s pursuit of holiness and greater commitment to becoming more like Christ. I do NOT agree that it ought to be the pinnacle of one’s life or that it is even the most important thing to do with one’s life.
I think virginity (and in a larger scale, chastity) is a wonderful, holy virtue. However, it is not, and in my opinion, ought not to be the main focus of one’s life. The idea is more that it would be so intrinsic to one’s existence to not commit sexual sin that there would be almost no risk of committing one.
Also, I wanted to re-assert the value I place personally on chastity. It *is* very important to me, but it’s not what I’m all about and I don’t fixate on it to the point of public ceremonies with my father. I don’t think that this fixation is healthy.
Victoria - My daughters & I have always openly discussed the principles (for purity & other issues) in God’s word. My husband & I have made it clear that we want God’s best for our precious daughters, & thus want them to live in close relationship & obedience to Him.
One of the things we talked about was that God’s prohibitions, such as of pre-marital sex, are not to kill our “fun”, but to save us from ourselves.
But we also made it clear that if they ever “messed up”, we would still love & accept them (accept them, not their sin), & they can tell us anything.
When I found out, by accident, that my older daughter had recently lost her virginity to her boyfriend, I was crushed & heartbroken. My daughter was weeping, too, knowing how disappointing this was to us.
But we also made sure she knew we still love her just as much as ever.
It still breaks my heart that she has chosen to live this way (she is living with her boyfriend), but they are welcome in our home, & we strive to show our own love & the love of Christ to them both.
Les_arbres - 49
YOU WRITE:….. “Are there ceremonies where young girls pledge to be patience, kind, not gossipers, faithful, etc.? Why a ceremony *only* focused on virginity?”
Sexual sin among the young or anyone today, has caused endless pain and suffering. Sexual sin creates many other sins, its not just the sexual act itself. The chance of pregnancy, for a child who most likely unwanted, but killed in an abortion clinic. Now we have two sins, sexual, and murder.
Take a look at Sodom and Gomorrha it was destroyed because of sexual sin. These two places were not destroyed because of gossip, lack of patience, they were destroyed because of immoral behavior, this should give every Believer a vivid picture of the way GOD views sexual sin.
Many a sinful life has started with sex before marriage, just look at our young people, many of their lives are in ruin, even those who once professed to know our Savior.
There is something very heartbreaking when a woman or man has sex outside marriage, the lie, the burden of sin can turn a life upside down.
Karen, my heart goes out to you. I pray for your daughter, this must hurt you very deeply.
God bless you
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37. Gravatar by Teenage_Tinkerbell 07.26.08 at 12:00 am
I wouldn’t go to a ball like taht.It just seems to awkward. I do have a purity ring though. My parent gave it to me for Chrisrmas. Both of my parents were involved and it was really positive.
THANK YOU for this testimonial!!!!
Thank you, Victoria.
Several times I’ve been in a situation where I offered to drive women from church somewhere, such as home from babysitting or after some event. Even if were just a mile or two, they would decline saying they should not be alone with a man.
I thought this was creepy since it changed a completely innocent situation into a sexual one. I think the purity ball is a little creepy for the same reason. And why daughters only? What about the boys?
The thing that kept me pure (in deed, but not in thought) through my teen years was an inbred sense of showing respect for women. I may have gotten this from dad from an earlier time. I believed correctly that girls were different and should be treated honorably.
Come to find out later, one girl friend said she had hoped I would try something, but she never let on since she never thought I was thinking what we both were thinking. And so, innocence prevailed.
But these days, feminism and television have made sure that there is no innocence left. Women are portrayed as immature and uninhibited sexually as males.
Our Christian school has helped in our case, since there is still a bit of chivalry there. My daughter’s boyfriend opens doors for her and treats her with utmost respect. She says he’s never tried anything and I believe her. Of course, Christian school still has many of the same problems as any school, but at least the message is right.
Xion,
My husband and I avoid being alone with someone else of the opposite sex not because of fear of assault, but rather just to protect everyone’s reputation. People will draw false conclusions, and we’re just careful not to fuel any gossip.
As you pointed out, feminism and television have eroded innocence, and have “dirtied” the average mind. Assuming affairs would not be a stretch these days…
It is refreshing to hear that chivalry is alive! Another common casualty of feminism. Poor guys–they’re likely to get fussed at for opening doors these days. It’s got to be confusing for men.
Victoria
Virginity should not be our utmost purpose in life. Then virginity is our god instead of God. Living with God as our God and glorifying Him in all we do will automatically result in Chastity.
OT
Please get your facts straight. I have never said that our “utmost purpose in life” should be virginity, nor have I intimated its a god, instead of GOD.