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Divorcing God?
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I had to smile at the two news magazines sitting on my kitchen table this morning. One was Christian (World ) and the other was secular (Newsweek), but for a minute you would have thought they were both out of the Bible belt.
It’s not that Mike Huckabee’s face fills the cover of Newsweek, or the words “Holy!” or “God” — which, of course, are always used with sophisticated irony in this self-consciously post-religious world. But one can’t help getting the feeling about America that “she protesteth overmuch” in her flamboyant divorce from God.
You will know what I mean if you have traveled in Europe — where, by the way, they think we are all Christians here, the lot of us. The Europeans have by and large made a clean break from God. Nietzsche’s “God is dead” rings true across that pond.
But America always seems to me like a kid who flamboyantly runs away from his Daddy, but can’t stop talking about him. The feature article on Huckabee is a little too sympathetic; it belies a twinge of nostalgia for home. I am reminded of ancient Israel’s similar episodic attempts to break free of the God who loves her and to curry favor with all the other kids on the Middle Eastern block:
“You say, ‘We want to be like the nations, like the people of the world, who serve wood and stone. But what you have in mind will never happen.” (Ezekiel 20:32).
America, have a tantrum and plug your ears and scream, “I can’t hear you, God!” But you know it isn’t so.
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Identity theft
You keep saying “God” as if there were something there.
Rdean - That is because He is there.
but HE is not in politics and shouldn’t be there.
Nice picture of Huckabee. I keep wondering when Wolrd is going to cover him taking money to grant clemencies to people in Arkansas. This is a big story and not many people are covering it. It seems it took more than just claiming to become a christian to get clemency. It also takes at least $10,000.
I don’t know about this whole Minister-for-president thing. it is going to be weird knowing that if the president to be is faced with a terrorist attack, he might be thinking the true cause is america’s sinfulness or he might get a “revelation” from God, then no logic on earth can stop him from making a dreadful decision.
Andrée,
NEWS FLASH:
The U.S. is not the “new Israel.” The U.S. is, in fact, like the other nations. God is not sovereign here (at least in the minds of men). The mob is sovereign.
Fusion:
Do you have a problem with a “minster” like Jesse Jackson or Al Sharpton running for President?
Ah, but God is sovereign, whether or not people like it, Wiglaf. He’s not up for election or re-election, so you cannot vote for or against Him.
Fusion, wouldn’t it be better to have a president who believes his countrymen are made in the image of God and thus of great value, if we have another terrorist attack? By someone humble enough to know he really isn’t big enough to handle this nation and needs greater wisdom (God’s wisdom)? Honestly, this idea of Christians as scary people who do unpredictable things that endanger others doesn’t come anywhere close to reality. (That is too often true of Muslims. Please don’t confuse the two; we do not worship Allah, but the true and living God.)
#7. Oh yes I do, they are way to radical and not an adequate representation of the whole population.
This post has the feel of being written not because it’s something the author felt strongly about, but because Monday was fast approaching and something had to be turned in.
#8. I am not references Christians but Preachers. Preachers seem required or prone to take extreme and controversial stances on many subjects. I am less scared of christians radicals, but all religious leaders seem a unquestionable influence in the actions of their followers, because of their intermidiary status.
I am simply saying that Politics and religion shouldn’t mingle. The decisions politicians have to make are sometimes not morally sound (e.g legalize abortions or clinical marijuana. Also, the whole High Preist (old testament), let God rule politics is notorious for some ‘unethical’ actions like destroying whole populations and taking others land.
** Notice i used ethical not moral.
“Ah, but God is sovereign, whether or not people like it, Wiglaf. He’s not up for election or re-election, so you cannot vote for or against Him.”
Cheryl D., I hope you weren’t stating that for my benefit. Either way, please explain how the fact of God’s sovereignty explicitly stated by you and implicitly by me distinguishes the U.S. from any other nation? It doesn’t.
FUSION,
There is no “Minister-for-president thing” with regard to Governor Huckabee. That is nothing but a mainstream media creation. Gov. Huckabee has (by far) more direct executive (secular) governing experience than any other candidate in the race (of either party). Anyone who lets the media define Huckabee’s candidacy in religious terms is a willing lemming for the leftist media.
#14. Joel Mark,
“My faith is my life - it defines me. My faith doesn’t influence my decisions, it drives them. For example, when it comes to the environment, I believe in being a good steward of the earth. I don’t separate my faith from my personal and professional lives.”- Huckabee quote from his website.
of course i know he isn’t currently still a pastor, that doesn’t mean his actions and words aren’t based off that background. I listen directly to what the media says, but that is how he comes across to me.
Gov. Huckabee stands ready and able to answer actual policy questions but few reporters or meida pundits will ask him one. The media driven all-religion-all-the-time factor for some Republicans is a Democrat campaign strategy flowing through the willing leftist media to define certain Republicans in stereotypical terms and make faith a wedge issue.
Actually, it is Barak Obama who has asked for the people’s prayers that he could an “instrument of God.” Obama continued, “I am confident that we can create a Kingdom right here on Earth.” (Senator Barak Obama, October 7, 2007, addressing an evangelical congregation in South Carolina).
Have the meida accused this Democrat of being a theocrat? Did Senator Obama ever get grilled much for conveying his sense of mission to be “an instrument of God?” Was he ever called a threat to the U.S. Constitution?
Nah, he got a free ride-a ride that a Republican would have paid dearly for without end.
FUSION, (#15),
I respect Huckabee all the more for what he said. It is evidence that he’s not faking his faith and he’s willing to come clean about it.
But his governing record for over 10 years in Arkansas shows that he has an excellent handle on what it means to be a governor as opposed to being a pastor. But being a governor does not require him to lay his faith at the door. if it did, a Christian could not serve.
In any case, the Gov. Huckabee quote you shared is responsible, open and honest. His faith should indeed be his life (or he’s not really a Christian at all, since Jesus expects us to give our all). Thank God for a candidate who is not pretending to be something he’s not.
FUSION wrote; “Preachers seem required or prone to take extreme and controversial stances on many subjects.”
How so? Some preachers, just like any other category of people, may indeed take extreme stances (like Jesse Jackson?). But please share what stances you are talking about.
Is it extreme to want to preserve traditional marriage?
Is it extreme to not want the brains of unborn babies sucked out of a womb?
Is it extreme to believe in limited gov’t?
What extreme stances does Billy Graham take? Rick Warren? Martin Luther King Jr?
You may be right, but then, so may some preachers who stand up to controversy with extreme courage.
Just asking.
#16, 17,
the Obama speech does have religious ringtones to it, which is understandable as he was addressing a religious audience.
My Huckabee problem is that we know how a man of faith would act.
Huckabee was governor of Arkansas, a rural state in the Bible belt, where literarily, there is a church on every coner. This is not an adequate representation of the united states at large, hence his experience there and politics there would be very different from the White House. I am simply not comfortable with a head of state faced with a crisis asking WWJD? 1. because it doesn’t work in 21st century politics. 2.if he can divorce his beliefs from his poliics, it immediately stamps him as biased and hence can’t adequately govern a people well known for their diversity.
Please check this info out.
http://www.huckabeefacts.com/
#18
Yes those included, because he doesn’t even have to weigh the pros and the cons to make such decisions. He just bases it off biblical sense of right and wrong. But those aren’t even my fears; I am thinking Middle Eastern attitude and the whole (the whole Christian against Moslems confrontation would be more pronounced). And how do you ever expect him to act rationally in terms of peace between the Israelis and Palestinians, because we already know where his bias lies. Not just these, he would be a poor judge of character because he is obligated to surround himself with people of the same faith as he because the bible recommends that (do you want me to quote the verse, cos I can). All these things count and even the stance he would hold in reference to special interest groups, we all know who he will favor time and time again. It is obvious why this is such a bad idea. Worst is that most Christians very much are quite entrenched in their convictions it will take heaven and earth to convince him to correct any mistakes he might make.
I don’t know what religion World Magazine is, but I certainly wouldn’t call it Christian.
FUSION,
So, a rural state where churches exist in healthy numbers is, in your words, “not an adequate representation of the united states at large?”
Nonsense. Arknsas is as much part of the USA as any other place. Check the map.
I think a candidate’s Christianity is a great resource to help a leader respectfully govern a people well known for their diversity. After all, God is the author if that diversity and Christianity helps people of faith to maintain high levels of respect for it.
#3. “Nonsense. Arknsas is as much part of the USA as any other place. Check the map.”
good grief! of course arkansas is in the united states.
My words ‘representation’ means description. Which means Arkansas does not and i mean doesn’t describe the United States as a whole. the same way you would say sanfransico doesn’t describe the whole of the united states, does the analogy help?
And how is God the author of diversity, he specifically instructs his followers not to mix with the other people time and time again in the bible. How does christianity help maintain high levels of respect for with when we are constantly forming new denominations because we can’t simply agree with or respect each other. Or all those churches breaking away from their main body because they have a difference in opion about certain issues. How, pray tell me does all that encourage or respect diversity?
FUSION,
What on earth do you mean by, “…he doesn’t even have to weigh the pros and the cons to make such decisions.”?
That makes no sense. What leader, Christian or otherwise would ever say or think they did not have to weigh pros and cons?
To have a sense of right or wrong, especially a biblical sense, is the best way possible to effectively and reasonably weigh the pros and cons of various decisions.
One need not give up or lower their standards of right and wrong in order to honestly weigh pros and cons of decisions. Without a sense of right and wrong, one cannot even know the difference between what ‘pros’ are and what ‘cons’ are.
FUSION, you seem quite entrenched in your convictions about Christians and it would take heaven and earth to convince you to correct your mistakes about them.
shoot! response #24 was directed at JOEL MARK’s #23 comment
FUSION,
If Arkansas does not describe the United States as a whole, what does? Your point is a non-sequiter. It’s pointless. No particular place can be or describe “the United States as a whole.” It’s a diverse nation and Arkansas is part of that diversity.
As the maker of all things that were created, God is also the author of diversity. Celebrate it, my friend!
The Bible is full of instructions to be kind and generous to strangers and sojourners in the land.
I find in general that Christians have far more resepct for their critics and opponents than their critics and opponents have toward Christians. Just my observation.
#27 O dear, if i disrepected you in any way, I appologise. My problem with your argument is that despite the fact that Arkansas is inclusive in the united states as a whole, if you go there you will be well aware that Arkansas demographics are a poor judge of the statistics of the united states as a whole (that means if you lump all the states together and take the averages such as income and race) see the US looks a lot more like texas or something else.
And if God was so inlove with all that he created while drown all of it in the case of Noah or send a big chunk of it to hell as is postulated He will do later on. My point it is i admire the christian attitude toward charity but the core shows that there is and would be little tolerance for those who are of a different view point.
In regards to Andree’s column, I don’t think America is anywhere near to divorcing itself from God and I don’t think there’s any possibility of it happening for quite some time.
But I do think people are getting wiser to the principle of church/state separation. They’ve grown increasingly uncomfortable with the “marriage” between religion and politics in America.
As for Europe, on hears conflicting reports on it’s religiosity. Evangelicals have always looked with askance on our friends across the pond when it comes to religion. That’s too bad.
What those who are religious in America should take from Europe’s experience is the knowledge that when one marries religion to the state as many European countries have done it dilutes, distorts, and eventually destroys Faith.
There will always be tension in America between religion and the state. Sometimes it goes to far, and Americans instinctively pull back. As I’ve said on other blogs, I think the Terry Schiavo case was a turning point for many Americans on the “religion in politics” thing. With the passing of people like Falwell and the emergence of new leaders who are less political, I think the pendulum has started swinging back again. At least I hope so.
Bianca,
I haven’t yet figured out why you hang out on here. Does it make you feel like you’re a better Christian?
A magazine cannot be Christian, technically. But the people who write for it can be Christians (though they are bound to be imperfect), and it can have a Christian perspective. And World does. If that’s not good enough for you, you’re more than welcome to go elsewhere.
“I haven’t figured out why you hang out on here.”
Neither have I.
FUSION wrote, “My point it is i admire the christian attitude toward charity but the core shows that there is and would be little tolerance for those who are of a different view point.”
Like people from Arkansas? I think you have shown insufficient tolerance toward them and their perceived point of view.
Tolerance is neither a virtue or a vice. In and of itself, it is an empty notion. It can only be seen intelligently in relation to what is being tolerated.
“Bianca,
I haven’t yet figured out why you hang out on here. Does it make you feel like you’re a better Christian?”
She enjoys bashing people with the log that’s sticking out of her eye.
It’s my mascara.
re: #20 BIOJOSH’s post
For the truth about the so-called “Huckabee Pardon” visit:http://therant.us/staff/cherry/12072007.htm
ABC Pulls a “Rather” with “Huckabee’s Pardon” Story
Media Brian Cherry, Associate Editor
December 7, 2007